I've been thinking about this topic since I first got into the Men's Movement and started reading all the blogs, forums and books on it. Especially Warren Farrell's stuff - he focuses on relationships quite a bit in his books, and I couldn't help but keep thinking about my own relationship while reading his books. Not only my current relationship, but previous ones - how I got the girl, how I persuaded her, how I patriarchally oppressed her into kissing, making out and fucking, all of that good stuff. Especially the getting the girl part. For a while I used to feel that as I get in a stronger position every day as I grow richer and more attractive, I can have my pick of women without ever needing to marry.
But now, I don't know. Will I even want to go on a date where I'm expected to systematically patriarchally oppress the poor woman by opening her car door, paying her compliments, paying for the dinner, and ensuring she has a great time? I was a different man when I was wooing my honey, and I don't know what lengths I'd go to for some pussy if I needed to do it all over again. A good woman is worth her weight in gold, but mining is such hazardous work, you have to question whether its worth it, whether its worth the risk of digging up fool's gold and suffering as a result of it.
However, I'll come out front and say it - I think that Men's Rights Activism is as good for a relationship as Feminism is to one.
That is to say, being an MRA will ensure that you are fully equipped to look at your relationship dispassionately and view all the intricacies in a new light, one that could be more jaundiced.
Now, I certainly won't pretend that I can speak for everyone. I know tons of MRA's who have healthy and happy relationships, some with their significant others sharing in their activism. They have found a way to make their relationship work - they've taken the MRA position but found a way to make it work with their relationship.
At the same time, I don't think my relationship is on the rocks or anything. I think my girlfriend is wonderful, our relationship is great, and I recognize that for most men, you have to have two personalities to start and maintain a relationship.
Most women out there are not happy with the MRA message - maybe they have misconceptions about it, maybe they think that men are supposed to be the load-bearing asses of society, maybe they think that women are superior. Whatever the case, most women are extremely happy with feminism, and see Men's Rights Activism as hurting them. And unlike men, they aren't used to hurting.
While we were having a heart-to-heart talk, she said that she doesn't think MRActivism is good for me - she said its not good to be in either extreme - not an MRA (of course she didn't use that word) and not a feminist.
And I couldn't help but agree. I told her that what we talk about are areas where men are discriminated against, and she was OK with that.
One thing that came to me in a brainwave was that if you have the same mistrust of women that feminists do of men, you really are no better off than the feminists.
I told her that I'm trusting her and this proves that I'm not completely bonkers. I told her that just as she trusts me not to rape her or beat her up (I'm bigger and stronger), I trust her not to falsely accuse me of rape or domestic violence - in this way we have a balance. I don't know how much of that got through to her, but it made perfect sense to me.
To me, not trusting any woman would be like a feminist not trusting men and turning into a bitter old spinster femhag.
Now, of course I'm glossing over a few bits. The above statement assumes that the femhag actually really believes in the feminist dogma, which most of the famous ones don't, we've seen how they marry up, have children and "give up their careers" and all that.
I'm also glossing over the fact that false rape accusations and using domestic abuse as a pawn to get what you want is millions of times more acceptable than actual rape or actual man-on-woman domestic violence.
And of course, feminism is based on lies where men's rights activism seeks to expose the truth.
Notwithstanding all that, I still think that relationships are fraught with danger when coupled with men's rights activism or feminism.
Your point about taking an extreme position, even the MRA position, being bad for relationships is well taken. Both extremes can result in eliminating the desire for the parties to be in the relationship in the first place.
ReplyDeleteBut your point about trust, which I believe is critical to any sort of successful relationship, is undercut by the difference in consequence for the breach of that trust.
You acknowledge that "false rape accusations and using domestic abuse as a pawn to get what you want" is more acceptable than rape. But the issue isn't whether it's acceptable - it's what the actual consequence is.
If a man violates his wife's trust, the law steps in to make him bear the consequences of his action. If he is unfaithful, he will be at a weaker position in the divorce. If he beats or rapes her, the state will put him in jail for a crime.
If a woman violates her husband's trust and is unfaithful, she still has the upper hand in the divorce. If she makes a false accusation of rape or domestic violence, the state will still put him in jail, not her (at least temporarily).
It is the interference in the relationship by the law and the state that is at the root of the problem, IMHO. Feminism has taken the position that the state has to interfere in order to guarantee a woman her 'rights'.
To the extent that the MRA's seem to want the state out of our relationships, I suppose our position is extreme. But a relationship that comes apart without state interference is one that I question the value of in the first place.
Um, did she promise never to deliberately get pregnant? That is on my mind because I just read online a Boston Herald article about athlete Tom Brady. Apparently, a girl friend he dumped in the fall is pregnant, and the writer made some sarcastic remarks, wondering if he were going to do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteSome sarcastic remarks about g.f. being thin, perhaps morning sickness?
Also, a quote from the woman in the fall saying her 5 year plan involved getting married and having kids.
Hey, Mr. Brady, be sure to have the DNA tested.
My own sarcastic remark involves the high likelihood that she indeed did plan to be married and pregnant, but neglected to obtain his agreement. So, my theory is, when he found out she had became pregnant, he dumped her, and will pay c.s. instead of becoming married which means she will get, um, everything. As bad as c.s. is, it is less than property settlement.
Anonymous age 64
Pete, relationships are fraught with danger anyway.
ReplyDeleteI understand your points though. Mistrusting an entire sub species isn't very sensible to say the least, and there are plenty of great woman out and about.
Like you say, it is about being aware of the potential dangers (legally and socially) of being in a relationship these days. The same way feminism tries to paint all men as rapists etc, in the real world we all know that's rubbish, it's the same with women. Most women are not lying, manipulative scumbags.
Well, they're not scumbags lol.
It's just about awareness and keeping your eyes peeled for any signs of a bitch.
The MRM is not about relationships,it is about the restoration of men's rights and MRA's are those that believe in those rights.
ReplyDeleteI and others have observed that when an MRA gets involved in a relationship he will soften or abandon his MRA beliefs but women keep their feminist beliefs no matter what.
there are plenty of great woman out and about.
ReplyDeleteWhere? Where are these great women?In some old movie? In your head? Where?
They don't exist,dude.
"I and others have observed that when an MRA gets involved in a relationship he will soften or abandon his MRA beliefs but women keep their feminist beliefs no matter what."
ReplyDeleteThat does pass the common sense test, but in my case, I've only started activism when I was within a relationship, not when I was single.
I think being in a relationship sets you free - the entire identity of a man is defined by the amount of hot pussy he can bag, and when you can say that your pussy is waiting for you at home, you don't have to worry so much about being nice to the other sex and being obsequious to the girls you meet, in the hope they'll let you in their pants.